Coyote Gun.

[broper]

Do you reload? I think the 25/06 is a great combo varmint/big game gun. If I had to make a choice I'd pick the .25/06. It's a great long range round and just has pronghorn antelope written all over it. And if you had to it could be used for elk. It's only a few fps below the .257 Weatherby. You can also shoot heavier bullets in .25/06 than you can in .243. I've never been a big fan of the .243, I prefer the 6/mm Rem. and think it's a better cartridge. I wouldn't hesitate on the .25/06 if that's what you want. Of course these are just my personal opinions. Go with your own gut feelings. Good luck.
Bob

[72camaro]

Isn't it easier if it shoots flatter to shoot the longer distances? This is where the 25-06 falls short of the 55 grain bullets against the .243. Did you run the Winchester Ballistics program and compare? I'm looking to be educated since I usually only shoot my .17hmr for varmits but the coyote hunting is looking like more fun all the time.

[broper]

I don't always go by the books, I just shoot what I like and feel comfortable with. I can't really see how the .243 is flatter. The .25/06 is a bigger cartridge, more powder capacity. And it will shoot a heavier bullet, that's where long range makes a difference. The long range cartridges shoot the heavier bullets, not varmint bullets. One of the hottest long range cartridges going right now it the 6.5/.284 and they use 140 gr. Bergers in it. I've personally seen a coyote shot at 900 yds. with a 6.5/.284, .243 with 55 gr. bullet? Not! My opinion anyway.
Bob

[broper]

Hey Eric,
I was just thinking ( hear that strange noise?), the registration is tonight at Great Wall and the checkin is tomorrow, Sat., at Hawktech Arms.
Bob

[72camaro]

Nov 16, 2012 9:13:11 GMT -7 broper said:

I don't always go by the books, I just shoot what I like and feel comfortable with. I can't really see how the .243 is flatter. The .25/06 is a bigger cartridge, more powder capacity. And it will shoot a heavier bullet, that's where long range makes a difference. The long range cartridges shoot the heavier bullets, not varmint bullets. One of the hottest long range cartridges going right now it the 6.5/.284 and they use 140 gr. Bergers in it. I've personally seen a coyote shot at 900 yds. with a 6.5/.284, .243 with 55 gr. bullet? Not! My opinion anyway.
Bob

I'm just asking as I'm trying to learn. With what I've seen, a 55 grain bullet is pleanty for a coyote. With the ballistic graph from Winchester that runs a comparison side by side, the 25-06's minimum bullet for speed for flatness is 80 grains and drops faster than the .243 with the 55 grain and side wind at 10mph is negligable. Heavier bullets drop faster as a general rule. I do understand a heavier bullet is more consistant on its' arch, even though there is more of an arch. The .243 is running 3910fps vs the 25-06 3470fps with more weight.

Now the question, what is the typical distance to shoot coyotes? I have not done it but I would think a 300yd would more likely be a standard max. Again, just looking for answers and opinions.

Also, what is the standard scope? Do you usually use more than 16 power?

ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/

[Eric]

I did a lot of reading on various calibers/trajectories/etc when deciding on the rifles I have today (.204, 22-250, 25-06, 30-06). One article that I found particularly helpful on the .204 and 25-06 is here:
www.longrangehunting.com/articles/songdog-fever-coyote-hunting-1.php

My three coyote shots (150, 300, 330) average 260 yds. The other guys will probably give you a better average distance for coyote shots.

My hunting buddy shot a .243 successfully for years at rock chucks, coyotes and deer. Good shot placement is key. Bad shot placement with a bigger caliber is more forgiving from what I hear

So I think If I had to choose one rifle for varmints and deer sized animals Id go with the .243 ...probably because Im attracted to calibers that I dont have though Ill probably end up with a .243 and 6.5x284 someday.

Like Bob says though if you want one caliber for varmints on up to elk go for the 25-06.

[72camaro]

I doubt that elk is in my future. Most likely the biggest is deer and mainly coyotes.

So, what is the normal scope for that distance, 250 to 300yds for coyotes? I run a 4-16x44 for my .17hmr and whistle pigs. There is a good deal on a Remington 700 varmit with 4-12x40 scope included, is that enough scope?

[Timber Butte Outdoors]

72camero,

There is one important factor that you and everyone else seems to be missing! that it the barrel twist? The barrel rifling twist determines what weight bullet that gun will shoot. Just about every factory rifle barrel, in rifle from 243 and up are desinged to stablize a heavier bullet, such as the 243 Win. for example, the twist rate in a factory barrel is normally 1in10, 1in9, even a 1in8, which means that it is going to stablize a heavier bullet, in the 85 to 105 grain range. If the riflings are a 1in12 or a 13, then you will be able to stablize a lighter bullet, say a 55 grain to a 80/85 grain bullet.

Every factory 243 that I have had experience with has shot the 85-87 grain bullets really well, also up to the 100 grain bullet. I have no or very little experience with the 25-06, but I am going to presume the same thing about the factory barrel, that it is going to be a slow twist and will stablize the heavier bullets well, not so much for the lighter bullets.

Twist rates and bullet stablization is determined by the twist and the length of the flat land of the bullet between the base and the shoulder or ogive of the bullet, the slower the twist, the longer the bullet flat has to be, which means a heavier bullet, the faster the twist say like a 1-14, a shorter bullet it will stablize say like a 55 grain. Take two bullets of the same caliber, one in a 55 gr. and one of 100 gr and compare the length of the flat land. You will see that it is not really the weight, but it is determined by the length of that weight bullet, so they use the weight as an indicator of the length of the lands surface.

Also, if you are going to want to save the coyote pelts, you don't want to blow them up with the light fast bullets, because the 243 with a 55 gr bullet tends to tear them up pretty badly, blowing big chucks off from their bodies, leaving big holes. But the 85-87 grain bullets do a good job of ancoring them, and doesn't tear them up, usually a small hole and a little bigger hole out.

Here is an analogy that you may understand! You shoot a shotgun alot right?, and if you have in the past shot lead shot for say waterfowl, and then you went to steel shot. Well you may have noticed that the steel shot is lighter and faster than the lead, but you may have also noticed that your killing range had become much shorter also. That is because the lighter steel shot runs out of energy in a shorter distance than the lead shot, which is heavier therefore carries farther with enough energy to make the killing shot at longer ranges. Right?

It is also true in rifle, lighter bullets run out of energy faster, therefore shorter ranges, than a heavier bullet, which carries more energy for a farther distance.
So lighter and faster is not neccessarily better than heavier and a bit slower.

To answer your question about typical shooting distance on coyotes? I would say if you are calling them, typically within 125 yards, more like 40 to 90 yards, even sometime within reach out and touch them (which we call shotgun range) range.

You will also on occasion have an opportunity to take a shot at 300 to 1000 yards if you think you can make that kind of shot. 300 yards is doable, beyond that it starts to get a little dicy if you don't have a scope you can dial up. And there lies the "Rest of the Story! You have to have good optics to make those really long shots.

I shot a 22-250, I had for many years a Tasco World Class 3x9 scope on it. The Tasco worked great for my calling gun, because I didn't take that long a shot on called dogs.

After spending sometime out on the long range range with my hunting buddy, the 3x9 Tasco, and the Remington 700V 22-250, I have come to understand the need for good optics and crystal clear magnification.

Now I have a Bushnell Banner 6x24, which I keep on 10x all the time, that is all I need, unless I am looking at a piece of property or a dog at a distance, then I will turn it up! But I will not shot with it up that high! Too much wiggle and bounce, and I can see in it everytime my heart beats.

Ok, That is enough! I hope that helps, probably not, but I tried! Good Luck
Gary

[broper]

I thought you were wanting a combination varmint/big game cartridge so I still stick by the .25/06. Think of throwing a ping pong ball and a rock. the ping pong ball will start out faster and flatter but speed falls off rapidly and the rock will carry farther. Things are not always as they seem on paper. You have a much larger range of bullets for the .25/06 from varmints to big/game. I've been shooting and reading about guns and shooting since the early sixties and in my opinion the .25/06 far exceeds the .243 for it's purpose. If you just want to shoot varmints, go with a .223 or .22/250. Before you make a decision get some books and magazines and read, read. You're doing the right thing by asking for advice. Take all that in but remember no two people, no matter how much experience, are going to agree 100%. Like I said, in the end, go with your gut feeling. Guns are an expensive hobby and you want to be sure you're getting what YOU want. Again, good luck with your decision.
Bob

[broper]

Hey Nick,
Did I read right? You just got a buck yesterday? Congradulations!!! Tell us about it, details, details man! Pictures if you have them.
Bob

[broper]

It's me again. One more thing then I'll shut up. You know, I've just been sitting here thinking, I know, it's hard for me! Thinking back about my past experiences, all the reading I've done and people I've known that shot both cartridges over the years. Rifling twist, ballistic coeffecient and all that makes a difference in shooting long range BUT, when you get right down to it the .25/06 will just flat out shoot the .243 everytime, hands down. Short or long range. Don't get me wrong, they're both good cartridges but............. just sayin'.
Bob
P.S. The .25/06 was originally desinged as a varmint cartridge.

[72camaro]

I appreciate all the info. I've been all over the map on wants and needs. I'm going to chew on all the info for a while, but the .243 is about out since reading a little more on the barrel twist stuff. Now I'm toying with 22-250 and borrowing a deer rifle if needed or going for the 25-06 anyhow. Thanks to everyone, you are all quite knowledgable.

[dew7880]

My gun of choice is my Noveske AR in .223 followed VERY closely by my .22-250's. The only dogs the 204 is good for shooting are prairie dogs!! I agree with Gary....

[72camaro]

After looking at the rifle twist chart and the camo Remington Varmit 700 with a 4-12x40 scope for 450.00, now I have to wait for the black Friday sale since this one was over today, I'm seriously looking at the 25-06 because of the twist rate. The Varmit 22-250 comes in a 14:1 while the 25-06 comes in 10:1.

Now to hurry and sell the competition .308 I got. I'm hoping the proposed buyers actually look at it and not just the pictures, the thing sells itself. I'm working through a middle man, my son-in-law and he is going slow and steady on it while I'm anxious to get the deed done and sold.

[72camaro]

BTW, I did not mean to take over the thread, only 9 people have voted. Anybody else want to say what your go-to rifle is?