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Post by kantankerus on Mar 27, 2011 11:53:00 GMT -7
Hi all, figured this would be as good a place to ask this as any I've found.
I'm a long time whistlepig shooting enthusiast. Recently I've come under a little scrutiny from certain family members questioning my reasoning for shooting the little critters. I claim the standard line that they are pests and cause havoc for farm lands and are quite abundant. They are asking me to find out if their are areas that truly have an overpopulation problem or possibly are encroaching on farm lands. Basically they are taking me to task on legitimate population control of the little guys.
I emailed Idaho Fish game and received no response. Basically, I'm looking for areas where someone "officially" considers them a pest and would like their numbers thinned.
If anyone knows such information or knows of another source, I would be most grateful.
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Post by Timber Butte Outdoors on Mar 27, 2011 13:09:37 GMT -7
kantankerus,
First off, Welcome to the IVH Forums. Glad to have you here! And "Thank You" for asking your question here. We appreciate you finding us and joining the forums.
Are you in the Boise area?
We hope that you will come to our club meeting on April 12th at 7PM at the Smokey Mt. Pizzeria in Meridian on Fairview Ave, and join the IVH club.
You claim to be an enthusiast whistlepig shooter. Something you really enjoy?
Having said that, let me ask you - Why are you listening to these family members?
I will assume that these people are non-hunters, therefore they are questioning you on your form of entertainment.
You as a hunter and being out in the fields and sagebrush, you have seen the large numbers of ground squirrels present.
You also know that if populations are left unchecked, they will overpopulate, which leads to increased territory, meaning that they will move into larger areas, such as crop fields, hay fields, housing projects, horse and cattle pastures, orchards, etc.... anywhere they can find a food source. And you know that they dig huge holes in the gound with big mounds of dirt piled up, easy to see for a long distance. How would your family like to have them in their lawn, or flower beds? As well as all their flowers and plants eaten down to the ground!
Also you know about overpopulation causing diseases to run rampant, such as the bubonic plague, distemper, and others that I can't remember, because the squirrels are a food source for predatory animals, such as coyote, fox, bobcats, badgers, skunks, domestic dogs and cats, hawks, owls, eagles, ravens, crows, magpies, they all eat these critters, therefore the diseases are transmitted to those animals, and on up the food chain.
Idaho F&G will not give you an answer because ground squirrels are a unprotected animal. There are no regulations, no limits, no nothing. So they are not in charge of taking care of them. In other words they don't get paid to regulate, or answer questions.
As far as finding places to shoot squirrels, there is alot of farm ground that is adjacent to BLM/sage land, that you can shoot from, and help the farmers at the same time.
Or you can go scouting, looking for farm ground that looks to have an infestation of whistlepigs, then go to the farm house and ask the farmer permission to eliminate some of his problem varmints.
If it was me that had the family members was scrutinizing me about shooting squirrels, I would just tell them that I am going to shoot them no matter what they say, and I am not going to knuckle under to their tree hugger thoughts and ways.
There are literally millions of squirrels south of Boise, not to mention the rest of the northwest - probably more than a person could count in 10 lifetimes. And there always will be!!!
I apologize to NO One for doing what I love! And neither should you! Nor am I going to make concessions to please someone that knows nothing about my way of life, and what I love to do.
Do you tell them that they can't watch or participate in football, because it is brutal and no one should get hurt playing it.
The Answer is a resounding NO!!!!
I am not trying to get off to a bad start here! Or step on your toes. I am just saying how or what I feel and think. I hope it is something you will think about.
Keep Shooting & Enjoy Yourself!
Gary
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Post by broper on Mar 27, 2011 18:39:17 GMT -7
Well said. Also they are on BLM land that ranchers use for grazing and most ranchers that I have talked to would love to have them done away with. I think everyone knows or has heard what can happen to and animal if they step in the holes they create. Over in Oregon the ranchers have a big problem with ground squirrels and welcome almost anyone that wants to shoot them, not much problem getting permission. It doesn't seem to matter how many you shoot, the next year they are back in full force or possibly more.
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Post by coldnosed on Mar 28, 2011 10:50:10 GMT -7
Kantankerus, I’m sure if you were spending you weekends at the landfill shooting rats there would be no need for justification. In my mind there is no difference.
You could try the USDA, State Department of Agriculture, or BLM range management for some damage numbers. I think you may struggle to find any though. Some losses in agriculture due to wildlife is just part of doing business, and go unreported unless the damage is extreme.
You could show them the damage. Early in the spring it will be more evident in a winter wheat field. Show them the holes that they dig, and the crop they have eaten down. Weed control in a field is the same as in your lawn. A good stand of winter wheat (or any crop for that matter) will keep weeds down. A place that has been eaten down, even if the plant survives, allows a weed to get enough sun light to get a start. The holes and mounds present similar problems as well as possible damage to equipment. BLM is pasture land that brings income to the Federal Government, if that ground is allowed to deteriorate to the point that it has no value as pasture income will be lost. I’m sure just about any wheat field with a rocky spine along it’s boarder will be showing damage from rock chucks soon, if not already.
A farmer is going to protect his livelihood. If guys like you are out keeping the population in check or he is putting out pesticides some of them are going to die either way. What way is “Greener”?
From a farmers perspective.
Bryan
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Post by ejones204 on Mar 28, 2011 14:55:26 GMT -7
Also don't forget Idaho does have 4 sub species that are protected. I don't think I can tell the difference while shooting with the sun in my eyes. At one time all ground squirrels north of the Payette river in Payette County were protected, and I believe this is still in effect. It was due to declining numbers. The funny part is we sportsman can't shoot them, but the golf courses have to have fish and game come in to kill them. For the most part they are abundant and, in my opinion, in need of thinning.
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Post by kennymill on Mar 29, 2011 4:12:32 GMT -7
Well said guys!
Some years ago I had some family come up to go camping with us from a big city and that don't have a clue about our lifestyle here in Idaho. My sister called me a murderer for shooting ground squirrels..lol..I was actually quite amused about her ignorance.
So later I sent her a photo of a deer I shot hanging from a tree with its tongue handing out and a slit throat. With the photos I explained to her that that was dinner. I don't know if they ever got it, but then I really don't care if the tree huggers get it or not.
Here is something I learning a long time ago, what other people think of me is not of my business. I cause no harm to anyone and I do not judge them for their lifestyle and in turn I will not be judged by anyone but God.
These animals are rodents and can be very damaging as mentioned. Those that live in the cities do not understand the problem as we do not understand the problems of the big cities, like murder of a fellow human, home invasions, road rage and the general lack of respect for one another.
Be direct and understanding for their lack of knowledge, challenge them to research for themselves the issues at hand before they try to judge you.
Good luck my friend.
Kenny
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Post by kantankerus on Mar 30, 2011 19:23:45 GMT -7
Thanks for all the information guys! Believe it or not whistlepig shooting used to be a family thing but some of the members began to question their actions.
Add to this that the area we have predominantly shot them at is relatively near some of the birds of prey area and frankly, it was an easy decision for them to make. Furthermore, in this area...there aren't as many 'pigs out there as their used to be. They haven't really judged me, but they have stopped the passtime themselves and never want to go out like we used to. Honestly, they struggle with it...they're on the fence.
My goal was to find a worthy cause and some re-education and get us together again. I'm not one to shove my opinions down the throats of others but I'm pretty good at selling my perspectives if I have some well thought out logic to sweeten the deal.
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Post by coldnosed on Mar 30, 2011 20:34:30 GMT -7
I’m sorry, I automatically assumed in-laws. Having family members think for themselves is a good thing though. I wish more of America would do it.
Honestly it isn’t necessarily my cup of tea either. I see the little buggers as making milk for the coyote pups. Having been shot doesn’t necessarily prevent that form happening though.
I hope if they remain on the fence you can find something to do together, it is important.
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Post by broper on Mar 31, 2011 5:56:43 GMT -7
If you shoot them it makes it a lot easier for the coyotes.
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Post by Timber Butte Outdoors on Mar 31, 2011 21:41:30 GMT -7
Kantankerus,
I wish you luck with your family. I hope you are able to continue to enjoy the shooting sport. I also wish you luck in re-introducing your family to the shooting sport.
The family is one of the top three most important aspects of life there is. God, Family, Country!!!
Keep up the good fight, ask the Lord for strength, understand, endurance, and lots of love for your family.
I hope that you decide to come to our meeting, and we are able to shake hands, and chat awhile.
Please keep us informed on your progress with your family, and your hunting, maybe some pictures also.
Good Hunting,
Gary
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